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Poster: Robman Date: Dec 27, 2005 3:57am
Forum: etree Subject: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

Hi all,

I reckon it's high time I took greater advantage of the music and musical expertise available around here. Although I am a musical omnivore, at the moment I am particularly fond of "thoroughly improvised" music (for want of a better term), such as the great soundscapes painted by the Dead in 1969-1974. Someone in a post a while back called these "Type II" jams, where the chord changes and time signatures of the "entry songs" are left behind for extended periods. Who else out there does this sort of thing successfully? (I know that many nonelectric jazz performers do--Coltrane, Miles, Evans, Jarrett, etc.--but that's not what I'm looking for at the moment.) My quest is not necessarily limited to bands available on the Archive; suggestions for "storebought" CDs are welcome as well!

Thanks!

This post was modified by Robman on 2005-12-27 11:57:54

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Poster: xtifr Date: Dec 27, 2005 4:29am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

Hmm, early live Pink Floyd (pre-Dark Side), if you can find any, fits this bill very well. Unfortunately, aside from bootlegs, there's a pretty limited selection available. The live disc of Ummagumma is good, but not a spectacular performance, and there's a recent release of some historical material from London '66 (I think that's even the name of the album) that features a very extended version of their classic "Interstellar Overdrive".

As far as the Archive goes, I'd say that Umphrey's McGee wanders into this territory a little at times, although their stuff tends to be more structured and jazzy. Henry Kaiser has also spent quite a bit of time exploring this terrain, although it is, again, just one of many things he does. (Henry has three sections in the Archive: his own, and the bands Psychedelic Guitar Circus and Yo Miles!).

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Poster: yippierb Date: Dec 27, 2005 11:22am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

Well, we keep hearing that the Quicksilver Messenger Service is coming to the archive...that will have some of what your looking for albiet a bit heavy on the SF sound side of the coin. Phish just never did it for me. The brit bands are too antiseptic(excepting the old Floyd). Mahavisnu Orchestra had some moments. While I agree with Diana that Frank Zappa's music is quite structured after many shows over the decades I think you can get the results you seek from some of his live recordings but you have to pick through them. And you have to find them. As for the Black Sabbath posting ..your kidding of course.The fact is that nobody deconstructed and recontructed a song like the Grateful Dead. I agree with you that the jazz stuff is just not the same. Even when they go electric and fusion. GD is "it" which makes certain recent decisions so maddening. Keep searching as I do and as a player I keep searching for other musicians that think like you and me.
Be Good, Rich

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Poster: nagdot Date: Dec 27, 2005 9:49pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

sorry man im not kiddin id put tony iommi against jerry in a guitar jam any day i know its just a studio lp but go get black sabbath/black sabbath or born again lp and put on the headphones oh the only way it works is if you have an open mind the grateful dead wasnt the only band out there that experimented with improv and in case no one knew black sabbath started in 1969 back in the british psychedelic era

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Poster: yippierb Date: Dec 28, 2005 2:30am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

You know nagdot. I do remember liking the first Black Sabbath album back in 69 and your right they were more hippie than corporate metal cheese back then. I did see them once in 75 they were an opening act and I thought little of the performance by them and headliner Blue Oyster Cult, however Spooky Tooth who opened the show was quite good.

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Poster: Robman Date: Dec 27, 2005 11:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

Many thanks for the suggestions. As strange as this may sound, three of the bands mentioned--Pink Floyd, Yes, Mahavishnu--were my favorites in junior high school before I ever discovered the Dead! I must have been one of the very few eighth-graders in my home town who had ever heard "Interstellar Overdrive." I even had Barrett's solo album, though it long since disappeared along with my other LPs.

About ten years ago, I spent at least a year listening to Coltrane, all day, every day, even while babysitting my newborn son. That must be why he's such a strange 11-year-old. Couldn't be the genes, of course.

I picked up "A Live One" by Phish when it came out, at a time when I was becoming increasingly disenchanted with the contemporaneous live performances of the Grateful Dead. (I was living in Berkeley at the time, so Dead shows were a near-monthly affair.) I was disappointed by Phish--I must have expected something else--and I very quickly traded the CD back in. I'll give one of their later performances another try.

I have listened to Zappa only sporadically, and I can't recall ever having heard him perform live. Any more specific suggestions on that front?

I look forward to checking out the other suggestions (and any future ones) as well. Thanks again!

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Poster: bonk Date: Dec 28, 2005 12:28am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

ZAPPA:Live at the roxy!!!!!!A must have CD circa 1974!!!listen to village of the sun and you will be BLOW AWAY!!!!!

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Poster: *Merlin* Date: Dec 27, 2005 4:15am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

As much as they seem to be put down here, Phish was amazing at this and I'm sure the type II designation comes from their jamming. I tend to like their less frenetic later period style (Fall '97 thru the end). Check out nugs.net and click the "free stash" button on top. The summer '98 stuff cooks as 8/15 and 8/16 are top quality. If you can find their New Years '99>'00 (12/31/99 Big Cypress) midnight to sunrise set, it is full of 20+ min versions of some killer songs. That said, I'll take '72-'74 Grateful Dead any day of the week.

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Poster: Brad Leblanc Date: Dec 27, 2005 5:38am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Type 2 Jams

I second Phish. They have done this well, night in and night out.

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Poster: nagdot Date: Dec 27, 2005 10:35am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

man i tell you i cant remember where i found it but black sabbath was like that they played 10 - 15 min mood altering stuff you know back when ozzy was good altho anytime ozzy wasnt singin was good im not bashin ozzy but he wasnt black sabbath he was just the singer and 1 more thing go notre dame lol

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Poster: JodyC Date: Dec 27, 2005 7:01am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

Like the Phish recommendation as well as Bonk's choice (names rarely/sadly seen these days). Let me throw Zappa into the mix as both musical genius and superb guitarist. Never one for conformity, he often epitomizes free form style, especially early on with the Mothers of Invention. Lyrics can be as filthy as any today, so beware if there are youngsters around. He sure seemed to enjoy performing where few had/have gone before.

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Poster: Diana Hamilton Date: Dec 27, 2005 7:09am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

Zappa has such a sense of structure and composition though! To me the Grateful Dead '69-74 were about breaking down structure. "5 notes and the wheels fly off." I'd choose say, Coltrane as music for further exploration (also a genius BTW). :).

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Poster: JodyC Date: Dec 27, 2005 7:14am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

Nice perspective Diana. Sometimes FZ's structure is unstructured, or is that the dark rum talking!

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Poster: Purple Gel Date: Dec 28, 2005 2:49am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD, re: Frank Zappa

While FZ's music definitely fits this thread as far as sound, there was technically no real "jamming". To me,that is the beauty of much of his work, that it would sound as if the band was totally riffing, when in fact everything was written down and he did not allow the musicians to stray from the written text, even for live performances. One of the aspects of Zappa's true genius was that he was able to actually write down music that ended up sounding truly improvised. To me he was, and still is, One of the greatest musicians ever.
Oh and Diana, I have to second your suggestion about checking out Coltrane, for me he was the epitome of Jazz riffing, even more than Miles Davis, or Thelonious Monk (two more awesome Jazz jammers)

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2005-12-28 10:30:07

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2005-12-28 10:37:37

This post was modified by Purple Gel on 2005-12-28 10:49:36

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Poster: yippierb Date: Dec 28, 2005 2:34am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

Robman I almost forgot one of my alltime favs The Hampton Grease Band "Music To Eat" recorded in Feb 71. This 2 cd reissue of the original double album is a little nutty but has some real free form rock and roll. It is available on Amazon and you can read a hilarious band history on Guitar player Glenn Phillips web site. Zappa's Helsinki concert is a gem (it is also with the band that could play anything like on Roxy) I had the privilage of seeing this line up twice and they were great. on the archive I love the Codetalkers. They usually keep the time signatures stable but boy can they jam.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Dec 29, 2005 8:36pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

Mountain Bus - Sundance
1971 album features blissed out version of "I Know You Rider". Long jamming tracks with spacey mid sections and liquid, twin lead guitar work.

Cannabis - Joint Effort
1972 album, full of guitar interplay, swirling keyboards, and close harmonies which bear a slight similarity to early '70s Grateful Dead.

Circus - Circus
1974 album mixes bluesy folk rock (a bit like '70's Grateful Dead in places) with twin guitar interplay and some synthesizer driven progressive pieces.

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Poster: cream-puff-war Date: Dec 30, 2005 3:00pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

Day Of Phoenix - Neighbour's Son & Wide Open N-Way.
Much ignored Danish band who had an English vocalist, and who made these two great albums in 1970 and 1972 respectively. The first album in particular is a stunning West Coast syled acid rock album with flashes of Quicksilver Messenger Service and Anthem Of The Sun era grateful dead. The trippy flowing guitar work is truly breathtaking. Highly recommended for fans of US '60's West Coast psych.

Good Dog Banned - Good Dog Banned.
From 1971, this ultra-rare LP featured former Sons Of Champlin member Tim Cain. With a very distinctive Grateful Dead-Quicksilver sound, GDB were one of the rarest bands to come out of the bay area in the early seventies.
My favorite is their song "Rollin' Into Salyer" friendly lyrics, nice hooks and harmonies

Horses - Horses.
A superb US country psych gem originally released in 1969 on the White Whale label. The album featured the songwriting talents of Carter Gilbert who wrote such songs as 'Incense & Peppermints' and 'That Acapulco Gold' (For the Rainy Daze) Mixing a blend of CSN&Y, Moby Grape, Stained Glass and early Poco this release is full of beautiful vocal harmonies, biting electric guitar and swirling keyboards. Don Johson was the vocalist of this group before his acting (?) career. As a side note the band had close links with the grateful dead (guesting on albums and eventually forming Dead side project Kingfish with Bob Weir).

Relatively Clean Rivers - Relatively Clean Rivers.
Former Beat Of The Earth leader Phil Pearlman assembled this band in the early 70's. This is their sole and very rare album from 1975, and it's a long lost classic of US psychedelia. An overall rural West Coast vibe permeates an album that's filled with melodic rural songs, eastern jams, delicate drifting electric and acoustic instrumentals and backwards and electronic effects. Somewhere close to American Beauty era grateful dead, but with an added dose of New Tweedy Brothers styled fuzz and garage psych electronic experimentation, this is a release that deserves a listen by any serious US '60's psychedelic rock fan.

Mikael Ramel - Extra Vagansa.
Originally released in 1974 this is the excellent second album by Mikael, who later became a member of Flasket Brinner (70's jazz rock band). This is a move away from his Swedish folk roots turning to a more West Coast/progressive rock sound with a mellow vibe and some great guitar work, keyboards and trippy backwards effects. Guest musicians include Kenny Hakansson and Bo Hansson and the overall vibe is very much like early '70's zappa with a West Coast edge and rural vibe. Superb jamming acid jazz rock with some beautiful melodic touches.

Sky Farmer - Amazing Grace.
Formed in 1973 from the ashes of the incredible Mountain Bus, Sky Farmer's sole album contains various grateful dead-like free form jams with long guitar breaks, piano, flute, sax and the vocals of Ann Linquist. They've been likened to a cross between J.Geils Band, Grateful Dead and It's A Beautiful Day. An old school Jam band.

Timbercreek - Hellbound Highway.
This 1975 album by California dudes jamming rural rock in the style of the grateful dead.The opening title track and much of the album has beautiful psychy lead guitar hooks and great melodies that sometimes drift into formless West Coast jamming.This is well recorded, mellow country rock decorated with great steel guitars melodic vocals, and even the occasional fuzz guitar. Anyone who digs Mountain Bus or early to mid '70's Grateful Dead will love this album.

Honorable mentions: Saint Stephen (the band), Circus Maximus (Jerry Jeff Walker), Kaleidoscope, Wishbone Ash, Capt. Beefheart & the Magic Band, Pentangle, Homer, White Witch, Paul Siebel - Woodsmoke And Oranges/Jack-Knife Gypsy, Holy River Family Band, Marble Sheep -Twiga

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Poster: bonk Date: Dec 27, 2005 4:26am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Band suggestions for fan of 1969-74 GD?

YES from 1970(Bruford era)till 1979(Alan white era).
Genesis//1971-1980!
Mahvishnu Orchestra!
Gentle Giant!